Auld Soul,
>If someone is relying on something it IS their foundation. If you are relying on Scripture (as defined by whom?) being accurate and true, then you aren't on the foundation of Christ.
Where does your information on Christ originate? You can't be that dumb so your question is facetious. What does the Lord say about this: John 15:5-7: Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Abiding in Christ and in His words, all of them, not just the ones that we agree with! Beware the warning in verse 6 becaue it is a repeat of verse 2.
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. 12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
What are those commandments? They are the Father's commandments and that means Old Testament. Jesus had much more to say about this, something about 'every jot and titl' and 'I have not come to do away with the Law but fulfill the law'. LOVE is OBEDIENCE, not something that we define ourselves by selectivly ignoring scripture. I can't believe that you made a statement this ludicrous so you could blindly support Jgnat.
Rex
Shining One
JoinedPosts by Shining One
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39
Perfect, Nearly Perfect, and Mostly Perfect....Religion
by jgnat inkero-kero's goodbye post brought me to mind a common complaint amongst jw apologists, that all we do is bring up the bad stuff and old history.
after all, "nobody's perfect".
well, that would be fine and dandy if the wtbts hadn't set themselves up as the sole mouthpiece for jehovah in these 'last days'.
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Shining One
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55
For Sh***ing One - Do I represent Christ Properly?
by jgnat inme: s***ing one: where have i complained about scripture?
he: then you have now changed your mind and believe that all scripture is inspired?
me: as others have already helpfully pointed out, questioning and complaining are completely different.
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Shining One
>Edited to add an emoticon, lest Shining one drown me in evangelistic spittle. PS. I knew Syd Barrett, so please go easy on me.
What??? You really did know him? How about any of the others, Roger, David, Richard, Nick??Syd had such great promise. How said his life seems to have been since hr got ill.
Rex -
55
For Sh***ing One - Do I represent Christ Properly?
by jgnat inme: s***ing one: where have i complained about scripture?
he: then you have now changed your mind and believe that all scripture is inspired?
me: as others have already helpfully pointed out, questioning and complaining are completely different.
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Shining One
Nicolau,
Sometimes the truth hurts. If it feels good to follow a blind guide then into the pit you will fall. Speaking the truth in love is essential, especially when dealing with false teachers. The message that I bring is as scriptural as it is offensive to some. IF you believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, God incarnate, then a believer must defend the faith that he has and set out the reasons. The heart is deceitful. Our feelings will fool us. We must have a foundational belief or there is no reason to have that belief. I will continue to proclaim "Jesus is Lord" and if I have to rebuke those who teach false, unchristian doctrine so be it.
Rex -
55
For Sh***ing One - Do I represent Christ Properly?
by jgnat inme: s***ing one: where have i complained about scripture?
he: then you have now changed your mind and believe that all scripture is inspired?
me: as others have already helpfully pointed out, questioning and complaining are completely different.
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Shining One
>Jesus said 'No-one comes to the Father except through me' BUT is 'mainstream' Christianity (I use that term loosely!) and the Bible the ONLY way to come to Christ?
Let me give you just a few of the scriptures confirming Jesus as the son of God:
John 8:24: Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."
John 10: 7-9: "Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
He said, "I am the door", do you see the context of your question?
John 11: 25-26 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"
This was just before He raised Lazarus. This is one of the seven statements in John where Jesus uses "I am" which is saying that He is God. It is the same as Exodus 3:14 where God told Moses, "I am".
Luke 22: 66-70: As soon as it was day, the elders of the people, both chief priests and scribes, came together and led Him into their council, saying, 67 "If You are the Christ, tell us." But He said to them, "If I tell you, you will by no means believe. 68 And if I also ask you, you will by no means answer Me or let Me go. 69 Hereafter the Son of Man will sit on the right hand of the power of God." 70 Then they all said, "Are You then the Son of God?" So He said to them, "You rightly say that I am."
This last statement assured that He would be crucified. The Jews understood Him clearly claiming to be equal to God.
The Bible shows clearly that Jesus is the messiah, the savior of all mankind. That is what it teaches. That is why His followers were encouraged to 'preach the gospel and God's kingdom' to all nations. Paul describes the gospel message here:
1 Corinthians 15 1-8: 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.
ANYONE who denies that Jesus is the only way to God is not a Christian. I don't care how loving or charitable they are or what church they belong to. This is foundational and the absolute truth. Jesus said I Am the TRUTH in John 14. Again this is one of the seven times that Jesus claims equality to God. To deny Christ as the sole source of eternal salvation and then claim to be a follower of Him is sadly mistaken.
I am glad you asked the question. You will see that Jgnat denied the foundational belief of Christianity when she said, "I think not" then misapplied scripture.
Rex -
55
For Sh***ing One - Do I represent Christ Properly?
by jgnat inme: s***ing one: where have i complained about scripture?
he: then you have now changed your mind and believe that all scripture is inspired?
me: as others have already helpfully pointed out, questioning and complaining are completely different.
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Shining One
Caedes,
You have no idea of what 'love' in this context means. You take the sugar coated pill and have no idea of the eventual poisoning it will bring. As long as you are told what you want to hear then you are happy, happily ignorant.
Rex -
55
For Sh***ing One - Do I represent Christ Properly?
by jgnat inme: s***ing one: where have i complained about scripture?
he: then you have now changed your mind and believe that all scripture is inspired?
me: as others have already helpfully pointed out, questioning and complaining are completely different.
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Shining One
Go back to sleep, Nicolau. Your own idea of immortality will take care of you eventually.
Rex -
55
For Sh***ing One - Do I represent Christ Properly?
by jgnat inme: s***ing one: where have i complained about scripture?
he: then you have now changed your mind and believe that all scripture is inspired?
me: as others have already helpfully pointed out, questioning and complaining are completely different.
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Shining One
Jgnat, another post in this thread said this:
>Jesus said 'No-one comes to the Father except through me' BUT is 'mainstream' Christianity (I use that term loosely!) and the Bible the ONLY way to come to Christ?
Your answer:
>I THINK NOT. Paul said that creation shouts of the existence of God. People can see it if they are looking. Acts 17.
What a total and complete misapplication of scripture! What kind of a Christian believes that there is more than one way to God? That is either rank stupidity or heretical contrivance. You just sealed my case with that FIRST sentence.
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Scriptures You Will Not Hear at the 02-07-06 Church Sermon
by scout575 in"he that believeth on the son hath everlasting life; and he that believeth not the son shall not see life; but the wrath of god abideth on him.
" ( john 3:36 ) .
"for the wrath of god is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness.
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Shining One
>"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life; and he that BELIEVETH NOT the Son shall not see life; but the WRATH OF GOD abideth on him." ( John 3:36 )
You can't even experience that until you pass from this physical life. Why wouldn't you hear this is a church? That and more like it are regularly preached.
>"For the WRATH OF GOD is revealed from heaven against all UNGODLINESS and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness." ( Romans 1:18 )
Same answer here, Scoots old boy.
>"Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: for which things' sake the WRATH OF GOD COMETH on the CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE." ( Colossians 3:5,6)
Now, 'to put the icing on the cake', the wrath of God indeed cometh. Every single human being has or will die at some time. Only the Son of God has returned....
>Hollow, 2000> year old threats.
A statement unprovable. A statement unknowable to anyone except God Himself. By the way, do you actually think the activities and attitudes in the third scripture are benefical (in practice)? Thanks for posting so many Bible verses. Paul told us in Philippians that even gospel preached for the wrong reasons would have the beneficial expect. I bet you had no idea that you are actually PROMOTING scripture just by quoting it! LOL
Rex -
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The Bible. Despite many reasons to dismiss it why do so many believe?
by nicolaou ina man cannot walk on water, truly dead people do not come back to life and 1 + 1 will never equal 3. these are just a few of the absurd impossibilities that one must swallow and accept in order to 'believe' the bible.. why does the belief that the bible is 'truth' persist?.
men cannot survive a fiery furnace unscathed, the sun cannot stand still in the sky and donkeys cannot speak hebrew.
unless you believe the bible.
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Shining One
>If there were credible and lasting proof for all to see, would not everyone convert to Catholicism or whatever denom you are?
No. The skeptics will always have a problem with the evidence. It simply will not be accepted. John 3:18-20 is very clear as to why people do not believe. Look it up.
BTW, I am not a 'demon'. I am a 'nightmare': I am a Christian who stands and defends the faith on solid ground. I attack the belief systems of unbelievers so that they can see their new found beliefs are as much hogwash as the Watchtower taught them.
Rex -
55
For Sh***ing One - Do I represent Christ Properly?
by jgnat inme: s***ing one: where have i complained about scripture?
he: then you have now changed your mind and believe that all scripture is inspired?
me: as others have already helpfully pointed out, questioning and complaining are completely different.
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Shining One
>You do not know my conversion story. You assume too much. My salvation came from direct intervention, the Holy Spirit whispered in my ear the saving knowledge that saved me from a life-threatening situation. In a very real way, I feel like the healed leper who came back to thank Jesus. I will be forever grateful, I will never forget what God did for me.
Praise God for that! Why not give Him the benefit of the doubt now instead of embracing so much of the liberal wackiness? You have a foundational experience. The premise is there (and it is not circular reasoning) for you to accept Jesus as written in the New Testament. There was not enough of a time period for a real myth to begin (that's why the libs like to date scripture so late in time) and the fact that so many people saw the risen Lord, knew Him and died for Him seals the argument. The next link is that it can be demonstrated that our Lord viewed the O.T. and particularly Genesis as historical. Since He viewed it as historical that presents you with a true crisis of faith: do you believe scripture or the presuppositions of the scientific world? Can you really believe that He would not protect scripture down through the ages? Quit listening to the doubters and look at the other views by people who have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit! Presuppositional apologetics is even more effective than historical arguments to many Christians.
Science is on a dead end with their present clinging to the dead theory of evolution. It is their 'gospel' and it takes more faith to belive it than it does to accept the scriptural accounts. When the present generation of scientists can no longer set artificial limits to valid argumentation by use of their tenure and peer review pressure you will see some real scientific understandings occur.
People come here with their belief system almost completely undermined. There are plenty here who pounce on them and quickly remove any remaining faith. People leave here and are quickly forgotten. Who wins or loses arguments or debates will not be remembered long. Eternal souls won simply by giving people a reason to believe is all that is important in the end.
Rex